Envisalink 4 spotted at ISC West

[GrandWizard]

How often do you change zone labels? I haven't touched mine in 9 years.

[brientim]

How often do you change zone labels? I haven't touched mine in 9 years.

@Grandwizard, that is a valid point and the same can be stated for the requirements for programming the panel. Other than changing out the panel, moving house and adding new zones, it is admittedly a rare occurrence.

Where the different requirement comes from is systems integration across different platforms. I.E home automation systems, your apps etc. when you expand to integrated the zones into Various other platforms to reuse zones for other than straight security, most will develop or identity where the requirements are progressively and therefore, update their system more than just if you designed a security system deployment.

It is not that it is hard but rather it augments capability. A Honeywell system with 128 zones or DSC system with 64 zones, gives a very wide scope for home automation growth. And... I will state, that one of the biggest complaint in transition from the IT100 to 2DS/EVL3 has been the loss of capability to do the label broadcast that propagates directly to their home automation platform.

As the DIY home automation market continues to grown, the first thing they hit on is value for money and return of investment and therefore the integration with a alarm system becomes very apparent. That is where the expanding requirement comes from, and I will say that some HA forum still promote the IT100 over the Envisalink for that reason rather than looking at it as a holistic end to end capability.

The driver for an end user to upgrade is either going to be new functionality, redundancy or end of life and as discussed, you may not update zone very often or for that fact download and thus I believe @strangely comments then for him their is no compelling reason for him to upgrade. I think that this maybe the message pushed throughout some of the HA forums too.

[Pestus]

NEO Support: The DSC NEO has a completely different physical interface so there is no chance of it being supported on this platform. While we're still considering supporting this panel in the future, right now the numbers just don't justify the effort.

This is unfortunate. In the professional field I can say many dealers shy away from using this product simply because they don't see a future in it. The logic goes, that if it doesn't support the NEO, it won't be relevant in the future. We're talking about dozens of dealers who have hundreds of clients each, in a single small city. If that's reflective of most markets, that's many thousands of units that aren't being sold, as they are selling DSC NEO compatible products instead. They aren't giving feedback, as they wouldn't be bothered to do so. They'll banter and debate among themselves, but I'd have a hard time believing many would call in to discuss the matter with Eyez-On. As such, you likely aren't aware of unfulfilled unknown demand.

I use the product because I myself am not sold on the NEO product line to begin with. I'm comfortable installing the PowerSeries line, and the Envisalink with it's cloud service beats the pants off anything DSC offers in terms of cost effectiveness. In another 3 or 4 years or so DSC will cease selling the Power Series, and we will all be forced to switch. I hope you guys will be ready, or you'll lose the professional crowd. As it stands, if you secure NEO compatibility, you stand to double the demand from the professionals now, and ongoing.

Oh and I'm fully aware how hard DSC made it on you... Encrypting the NEO bus like they've done is obviously done for your benefit. I suppose Eyez-On should feel honoured. I doubt it, somehow.

Awesome product and service though guys.. Truly!

[Pestus]

As the DIY home automation market continues to grown, the first thing they hit on is value for money and return of investment and therefore the integration with a alarm system becomes very apparent. That is where the expanding requirement comes from, and I will say that some HA forum still promote the IT100 over the Envisalink for that reason rather than looking at it as a holistic end to end capability.

The driver for an end user to upgrade is either going to be new functionality, redundancy or end of life and as discussed, you may not update zone very often or for that fact download and thus I believe @strangely comments then for him their is no compelling reason for him to upgrade. I think that this maybe the message pushed throughout some of the HA forums too.

I'll add to this that professional audio/visual companies are still working with Control4 and Crestron equipment. As such, in the high end market, its pure DSC, and always IT100. DSC makes the most commonly requested make by these companies. If there's room for expansion, it would be getting Control4 certification for the ENV3DS or ENV4DS. That would bring more sales on the professional side as well. Given some of the racks that get installed, they'd be more than happy to integrate via Ethernet/IP instead of RS232. This is especially true if with the ENV4DS we're getting direct PC-Link cable connection, leveraging the full extent of the DSC bus.

[brientim]

I'll add to this that professional audio/visual companies are still working with Control4 and Crestron equipment. As such, in the high end market, its pure DSC, and always IT100. DSC makes the most commonly requested make by these companies. If there's room for expansion, it would be getting Control4 certification for the ENV3DS or ENV4DS. That would bring more sales on the professional side as well. Given some of the racks that get installed, they'd be more than happy to integrate via Ethernet/IP instead of RS232. This is especially true if with the ENV4DS we're getting direct PC-Link cable connection, leveraging the full extent of the DSC bus.

@Pestus, there is also movement in that space to move away from the dependency on only the IT100. Extra Vegetables Generic Security System interface expands panels and manufactures/models rather than bespoked individual requirements.
http://www.extravegetables.com/category ... e/security

For hardware, new multiple system compatible devices are starting to emerge too which already are certified for Crestron and are working on Control4 currently. Houselogix saw the market and have also taken actions. However, zone broadcast are not part of their system.

https://www.houselogix.com/shop/hsim-ds ... ion-module

So there are other players seeing the gap, but personally they are purely integration and do not offer the same capabilities of the Envisalink modules, or Eyez-On/Connect2Go services. So taking this into the realm/market would know doubt be a real enticement for installers, either via the Extra Vegetables or them obtaining certification directly.

WRT Control4 this was the approach that was presented when it was taughted
http://www.c4forums.com/topic/7449-dsc- ... tegration/

HomeSeer was the same until someone designed a 3rd party interface after the release of the EVL3 too. Homeseer still sell the IT100 and offers that as native support OOTB.

As some system don't support EVL OOTB, others run both IT100 and EVL.

[strangely]

How often do you change zone labels? I haven't touched mine in 9 years.

I have 7 zones to add soon and also re-purposing/renaming a couple of others.

Now since I need to do this in DLS, it would be a lot less hassle if I now didn't have to do this in my HA controller too for all of these changes

[Pestus]

@Pestus, there is also movement in that space to move away from the dependency on only the IT100. Extra Vegetables Generic Security System interface expands panels and manufactures/models rather than bespoked individual requirements.
http://www.extravegetables.com/category ... e/security

For hardware, new multiple system compatible devices are starting to emerge too which already are certified for Crestron and are working on Control4 currently. Houselogix saw the market and have also taken actions. However, zone broadcast are not part of their system.

https://www.houselogix.com/shop/hsim-ds ... ion-module

So there are other players seeing the gap, but personally they are purely integration and do not offer the same capabilities of the Envisalink modules, or Eyez-On/Connect2Go services. So taking this into the realm/market would know doubt be a real enticement for installers, either via the Extra Vegetables or them obtaining certification directly.

WRT Control4 this was the approach that was presented when it was taughted
http://www.c4forums.com/topic/7449-dsc- ... tegration/

HomeSeer was the same until someone designed a 3rd party interface after the release of the EVL3 too. Homeseer still sell the IT100 and offers that as native support OOTB.

As some system don't support EVL OOTB, others run both IT100 and EVL.

Brientim,

How are you? You still running Vera, or have you moved on to OpenHAB or Homeseer?

I've been trying to get Control4 installers to try using Paradox drivers.. Interestingly, label broadcast is supported. http://www.extravegetables.com/products ... inegration

My experience is people tend to not want to do anything different. After asking whether or not they'd allow it, I am usually greeted with great irritation, and they just say "Can you please just use DSC?". This is unfortunate, as there is so much passion in the DIY sector. You'd think professionals would be willing to try new things. I'm glad that Control4 is keeping up. I can only hope installers are leveraging all the nifty technology now available to them.

Strangely,

How are you? Haven't run into you on these forums in a while. You still running Vera, or have you also moved to OpenHAB or Homeseer?

[brientim]

@Pestus, I am well and thank you for asking. I hope you are too.
I am a bit of the reverse, I went from Control4 to HomeSeer and then to Vera.
Being in Australia, Control4 had a very small market, was extremely expensive and limited installer and as you state, inflexible. I was even going to do the installers course to as a result but it was cancelled. The change came about when moving and could not sell the house with it installed and the cost of where exhortation to have it removed and reinstalled, so Control4 was decommissioned.

The next reiteration was using Homeseer and X10, combined with DSC controlling X10. This was effective but once again, changes to circumstances lead to Vera. However, I have always retained the licenses current to the released version. In fact, HS3Pro is installed on as HP5740e (embedded) system running something else but not utilised.

Yes, still have and are using Vera. I started changing to OpenHab; however, work has since taken over my life and HA is really not a priority currently. Trying to pass on to my wife to manage but as she states, we do not need to make it complex, just workable and reliable, so do not tinker...

Hence, starting with Control4 started the DSC integration many and many moons ago. But back on topic, I do state, the best complimentary DSC product is here.

[strangely]

Strangely,

How are you? Haven't run into you on these forums in a while. You still running Vera, or have you also moved to OpenHAB or Homeseer?

I'm good thanks! Like @Brientim, I've also been a bit busy and HA has taken a bit of a back stage for the moment.

Still with Vera, but will likely cut over to OpenHAB soon I guess.

[brientim]

I suppose it is stacked and packed ready for their offical release communication. A few corrections maybe discovered on close review 3 to 4..

http://www.eyezon.com/?page_id=176